> The objective of each company in the production web could loosely be described as "maximizing production'' within its industry sector.
Why does any company have this goal, or even roughly this goal, if they are aligned with their shareholders?
It seems to me you are using the word "alignment" as a boolean, whereas I'm using it to refer to either a scalar ("how aligned is the system?") or a process ("the system has been aligned, i.e., has undergone a process of increasing its alignment"). I prefer the scalar/process usage, because it seems to me that people who do alignment research (including yourself) are going to produce ways of increasing the "alignment scalar", rather than ways of guaranteeing the "perfect alignment" boolean. (I sometimes use "misaligned" as a boolean due to it being easier for people to agree on what is "misaligned" than what is "aligned".) In general, I think it's very unsafe to pretend numbers that are very close to 1 are exactly 1, because e.g., 1^(10^6) = 1 whereas 0.9999^(10^6) very much isn't 1, and the way you use the word "aligned" seems unsafe to me in this way.
(Perhaps you believe in some kind of basin of convergence around perfect alignment that causes sufficiently-well-aligned systems to converge on perfect alignment, in which case it might make sense to use "aligned" to mean "inside the convergence basin of perfect alignment". However, I'm both dubious of the width of that basin, and dubious that its definition is adequately social-context-independent [e.g., independent of the bargaining stances of other stakeholders], so I'm back to not really believing in a useful Boolean notion of alignment, only scalar alignment.)
In any case, I agree profit maximization it not a perfectly aligned goal for a company, however, it is a myopically pursued goal in a tragedy of the commons resulting from a failure to agree (as you point out) on something better to do (e.g., reducing competitive pressures to maximize profits).
I guess this is probably just a gloss you are putting on the combined behavior of multiple systems, but you kind of take it for given rather than highlighting it as a serious bargaining failure amongst the machines, and more importantly you don't really say how or why this would happen.
I agree that it is a bargaining failure if everyone ends up participating in a system that everyone thinks is bad; I thought that would be an obvious reading of the stories, but apparently it wasn't! Sorry about that. I meant to indicate this with the pointers to Dafoe's work on "Cooperative AI" and Scott Alexander's "Moloch" concept, but looking back it would have been a lot clearer for me to just write "bargaining failure" or "bargaining non-starter" at more points in the story.
The implicit argument seems to apply just as well to humans trading with each other and I'm not sure why the story is different if we replace the humans with aligned AI. [...] Maybe you think we are already losing sight of our basic goals and collectively pursuing alien goals
Yes, you understand me here. I'm not (yet?) in the camp that we humans have "mostly" lost sight of our basic goals, but I do feel we are on a slippery slope in that regard. Certainly many people feel "used" by employers/ institutions in ways that are disconnected with their values. People with more job options feel less this way, because they choose jobs that don't feel like that, but I think we are a minority in having that choice.
> However, their true objectives are actually large and opaque networks of parameters that were tuned and trained to yield productive business practices during the early days of the management assistant software boom.
This sounds like directly saying that firms are misaligned.
I would have said "imperfectly aligned", but I'm happy to conform to "misaligned" for this.
I agree that competitive pressures to produce imply that firms do a lot of producing and saving, just as it implies that humans do a lot of producing and saving.
Good, it seems we are synced on that.
And in the limit you can basically predict what all the machines do, namely maximally efficient investment.
Yes, it seems we are synced on this as well. Personally, I find this limit to be a major departure from human values, and in particular, it is not consistent with human existence.
But that doesn't say anything about what the society does with the ultimate proceeds from that investment.
The attractor I'm pointing at with the Production Web is that entities with no plan for what to do with resources---other than "acquire more resources"---have a tendency to win out competitively over entities with non-instrumental terminal values like "humans having good relationships with their children". I agree it will be a collective bargaining failure on the part of humanity if we fail to stop our own replacement by "maximally efficient investment" machines with no plans for what to do with their investments other than more investment. I think the difference between mine and your views here is that I think we are on track to collectively fail in that bargaining problem absent significant and novel progress on "AI bargaining" (which involves a lot of fairness/transparency) and the like, whereas I guess you think we are on track to succeed?
You might say: investment has to converge to 100% since people with lower levels of investment get outcompeted.
Yep!
But this it seems like the actual efficiency loss required to preserve human values seems very small even over cosmological time (e.g. see Carl on exactly this question).
I agree, but I don't think this means we are on track to keeping the humans, and if we are on track in my opinion it will be mostly-because of (say, using Shapley value to define "mostly because of") of technical progress on bargaining/cooperation/governance solutions rather than alignment solutions.
And more pragmatically, such competition most obviously causes harm either via a space race and insecure property rights,
I agree; competition causing harm is key to my vision of how things will go, so this doesn't read to me as a counterpoint; I'm not sure if it was intended as one though?
or war between blocs with higher and lower savings rates
+1 to this as a concern; I didn't realize other people were thinking about this, so good to know.
(some of them too low to support human life, which even if you don't buy Carl's argument is really still quite low, conferring a tiny advantage)
I think I disagree with you on the tininess of the advantage conferred by ignoring human values early on during a multi-polar take-off. I agree the long-run cost of supporting humans is tiny, but I'm trying to highlight a dynamic where fairly myopic/nihilistic power-maximizing entities end up quickly out-competing entities with other values, due to, as you say, bargaining failure on the part of the creators of the power-maximizing entities.
Why wouldn't an aligned CEO sit down with the board to discuss the situation openly with them?
In the failure scenario as I envision it, the board will have already granted permission to the automated CEO to act much more quickly in order to remain competitive, such that the AutoCEO isn't checking in with the Board enough to have these conversations. The AutoCEO is highly aligned with the Board in that it is following their instruction to go much faster, but in doing so it makes a larger number of tradeoff that the Board wishes they didn't have to make. The pressure to do this results from a bargaining failure between the Board and other Boards who are doing the same thing and wishing everyone would slow down and do things more carefully and with more coordination/bargaining/agreement.
Can you explain the decisions an individual aligned CEO makes as its company stops benefiting humanity? I can think of a few options:
- Actually the CEOs aren't aligned at this point. They were aligned but then aligned CEOs ultimately delegated to unaligned CEOs. But then I agree with Vanessa's comment.
- The CEOs want to benefit humanity but if they do things that benefit humanity they will be outcompeted. so they need to mostly invest in remaining competitive, and accept smaller and smaller benefits to humanity. But in that case can you describe what tradeoff concretely they are making, and in particular why they can't continue to take more or less the same actions to accumulate resources while remaining responsive to shareholder desires about how to use those resources?
Yes, it seems this is a good thing to hone in on. As I envision the scenario, the automated CEO is highly aligned to the point of keeping the Board locally happy with its decisions conditional on the competitive environment, but not perfectly aligned, and not automatically successful at bargaining with other companies as a result of its high alignment. (I'm not sure whether to say "aligned" or "misaligned" in your boolean-alignment-parlance.) At first the auto-CEO and the Board are having "alignment check-ins" where the auto-CEO meets with the Board and they give it input to keep it (even) more aligned than it would be without the check-ins. But eventually the Board realizes this "slow and bureaucratic check-in process" is making their company sluggish and uncompetitive, so they instruct the auto-CEO more and more to act without alignment check ins. The auto-CEO might warns them that this will decrease its overall level of per-decision alignment with them, but they say "Do it anyway; done is better than perfect" or something along those lines. All Boards wish other Boards would stop doing this, but neither they nor their CEOs manage to strike up a bargain with the rest of the world stop it. This concession by the Board—a result of failed or non-existent bargaining with other Boards [see: antitrust law]—makes the whole company less aligned with human values.
The win scenario is, of course, a bargain to stop that! Which is why I think research and discourse regarding how the bargaining will work is very high value on the margin. In other words, my position is that the best way for a marginal deep-thinking researcher to reduce the risks of these tradeoffs is not to add another brain to the task of making it easier/cheaper/faster to do alignment (which I admit would make the trade-off less tempting for the companies), but to add such a researcher to the problem of solving the bargaining/cooperation/mutual-governance problem that AI-enhanced companies (and/or countries) will be facing.
If trillion-dollar tech companies stop trying to make their systems do what they want, I will update that marginal deep-thinking researchers should allocate themselves to making alignment (the scalar!) cheaper/easier/better instead of making bargaining/cooperation/mutual-governance cheaper/easier/better. I just don't see that happening given the structure of today's global economy and tech industry.
Somehow the machine interests (e.g. building new factories, supplying electricity, etc.) are still being served. If the individual machines are aligned, and food/oxygen/etc. are in desperately short supply, then you might think an aligned AI would put the same effort into securing resources critical to human survival. Can you explain concretely what it looks like when that fails?
Yes, thanks for the question. I'm going to read your usage of "aligned" to mean "perfectly-or-extremely-well aligned with humans". In my model, by this point in the story, there has a been a gradual decrease in the scalar level of alignment of the machines with human values, due to bargaining successes on simpler objectives (e.g., «maximizing production») and bargaining failures on more complex objectives (e.g., «safeguarding human values») or objectives that trade off against production (e.g., «ensuring humans exist»). Each individual principal (e.g., Board of Directors) endorsed the gradual slipping-away of alignment-scalar (or failure to improve alignment-scalar), but wished everyone else would stop allowing the slippage.
With: Thomas Krendl Gilbert, who provided comments, interdisciplinary feedback, and input on the RAAP concept. Thanks also for comments from Ramana Kumar.
Target audience: researchers and institutions who think about existential risk from artificial intelligence, especially AI researchers.
Preceded by: Some AI research areas and their relevance to existential safety, which emphasized the value of thinking about multi-stakeholder/multi-agent social applications, but without concrete extinction scenarios.
This post tells a few different stories in which humanity dies out as a result of AI technology, but where no single source of human or automated agency is the cause. Scenarios with multiple AI-enabled superpowers are often called “multipolar” scenarios in AI futurology jargon, as opposed to “unipolar” scenarios with just one superpower.
Part 1 covers a batch of stories that play out slowly (“slow take-offs”), and Part 2 stories play out quickly. However, in the end I don’t want you to be super focused how fast the technology is taking off. Instead, I’d like you to focus on multi-agent processes with a robust tendency to play out irrespective of which agents execute which steps in the process. I’ll call such processes Robust Agent-Agnostic Processes (RAAPs).
A group walking toward a restaurant is a nice example of a RAAP, because it exhibits:
Interestingly, if all you want to do is get one person in the group not to go to the restaurant, sometimes it’s actually easier to achieve that by convincing the entire group not to go there than by convincing just that one person. This example could be extended to lots of situations in which agents have settled on a fragile consensus for action, in which it is strategically easier to motivate a new interpretation of the prior consensus than to pressure one agent to deviate from it.
I think a similar fact may be true about some agent-agnostic processes leading to AI x-risk, in that agent-specific interventions (e.g., aligning or shutting down this or that AI system or company) will not be enough to avert the process, and might even be harder than trying to shift the structure of society as a whole. Moreover, I believe this is true in both “slow take-off” and “fast take-off” AI development scenarios
This is because RAAPs can arise irrespective of the speed of the underlying “host” agents. RAAPs are made more or less likely to arise based on the “structure” of a given interaction. As such, the problem of avoiding the emergence of unsafe RAAPs, or ensuring the emergence of safe ones, is a problem of mechanism design (wiki/Mechanism_design). I recently learned that in sociology, the concept of a field (martin2003field, fligsteinmcadam2012fields) is roughly defined as a social space or arena in which the motivation and behavior of agents are explained through reference to surrounding processes or “structure” rather than freedom or chance. In my parlance, mechanisms cause fields, and fields cause RAAPs.
Meta / preface
Read this if you like up-front meta commentary; otherwise ignore!
Problems before solutions. In this post I’m going to focus more on communicating problems arising from RAAPs rather than potential solutions to those problems, because I don’t think we should have to wait to have convincing solutions to problems before acknowledging that the problems exist. In particular, I’m not really sure how to respond to critiques of the form “This problem does not make sense to me because I don’t see what your proposal is for solving it”. Bad things can happen even if you don’t know how to stop them. That said, I do think the problems implicit in the stories of this post are tractable; I just don’t expect to convince you of that here.
Not calling everything an agent. In this post I think treating RAAPs themselves as agents would introduce more confusion than it’s worth, so I’m not going to do it. However, for those who wish to view RAAPs as agents, one could informally define an agent R to be a RAAP running on agents A1…An if:
This framing might yield interesting research ideas, but for the purpose of reading this post I don’t recommend it.
Existing thinking related to RAAPs and existential safety. I’ll elaborate more on this later in the post, under “Successes in our agent-agnostic thinking”.
Part 1: Slow stories, and lessons therefrom
Without further ado, here’s our first story:
The Production Web, v.1a (management first)
Here’s a diagram depicting most of the companies in the Production Web:
Now, here’s another version of the production web story, with some details changed about which agents carry out which steps and when, but with a similar overall trend.
strikethroughtext is deleted.The Production Web, v.1b (engineering first)
The Production Web as an agent-agnostic process
The first perspective I want to share with these Production Web stories is that there is a robust agent-agnostic process lurking in the background of both stories—namely, competitive pressure to produce—which plays a significant background role in both. Stories 1a and 1b differ on when things happen and who does which things, but they both follow a progression from less automation to more, and correspondingly from more human control to less, and eventually from human existence to nonexistence. If you find these stories not-too-hard to envision, it’s probably because you find the competitive market forces “lurking” in the background to be not-too-unrealistic.
Let me take one more chance to highlight the RAAP concept using another variant of the Production Web story, which differs from 1a and 1b on the details of which steps of the process human banks and governments end up performing. For the Production Web to gain full autonomy from humanity, it doesn’t matter how or when governments and banks end up falling behind on the task of tracking and regulating the companies’ behavior; only that they fall behind eventually. Hence, the “task” of outpacing these human institutions is agnostic as to who or what companies or AI systems carry it out:
The Production Web, v.1c (banks adapt):
Comparing agent-focused and agent-agnostic views
If one of the above three Production Web stories plays out in reality, here are two causal attributions that one could make to explain it:
Attribution 1 (agent-focused): humanity was destroyed by the aggregate behavior of numerous agents, no one of which was primarily causally responsible, but each of which played a significant role.
Attribution 2 (agent-agnostic): humanity was destroyed because competitive pressures to increase production resulted in processes that gradually excluded humans from controlling the world, and eventually excluded humans from existing altogether.
The agent-focused and agent-agnostic views are not contradictory, any more than chemistry and biology are contradictory views for describing the human body. Instead, the agent-focused and agent-agnostic views offer complementary abstractions for intervening on the system:
Both types of interventions are valuable, complementary, and arguably necessary. For the latter, more work is needed to clarify what constitutes a “tolerable level” of competitive production pressure in any given domain of production, and what stakeholders in that domain would need to see demonstrated in a new interaction mechanism for them to consider the mechanism more cooperative than the status quo.
Control loops in agent-agnostic processes
If an agent-agnostic process is robust, that’s probably because there’s a control loop of some kind that keeps it functioning. (Perhaps resilient is a better term here; feedback on thie terminology in the comments would be particularly welcome.)
For instance, if real-world competitive production pressures leads to one of the Production Web stories (1a-1c) actually playing out in reality, we can view the competitive pressure itself as a control loop that keeps the world “on track” in producing faster and more powerful production processes and eliminating slower and less powerful production processes (such as humans). This competitive pressure doesn’t “care” if the production web develops through story 1a vs 1b vs 1c; all that “matters” is the result. In particular,
Thus, by identifying control loops like “competitive pressures to increase production”, we can predict or intervene upon certain features of the future (e.g., tendency to replace humans by automated systems) without knowing the particular details how those features are going to obtain. This is the power of looking for RAAPs as points of leverage for “changing our fate”.
This is not to say we should anthropomorphize RAAPs, or even that we should treat them like agents. Rather, I’m saying that we should look for control loops in the world that are not localized to the default “cast” of agents we use to compose our narratives about the future.
Successes in our agent-agnostic thinking
Thankfully, there have already been some successes in agent-agnostic thinking about AI x-risk:
Note: With the concept of a Robust Agent-Agnostic Process, I’m trying to highlight not only the “forces” that keep the non-agentic process running, but also the fact that the steps in the process are somewhat agnostic as to which agent carries them out.
Arguably, Scott Alexander’s earlier blog post entitled “Meditations on Moloch” (alexander2014meditations) belongs in the above list, although the connection to AI x-risk is less direct/explicit, so I'm mentioning it separately. The post explores scenarios wherein “The implicit question is – if everyone hates the current system, who perpetuates it?”. Alexander answers this question not by identifying a particular agent in the system, but gives the rhetorical response “Moloch”. While the post does not directly mention AI, Alexander considers AI in his other writings, as do many of his readers, such more than one of my peers have been reminded of “Moloch” by my descriptions of the Production Web.
Where’s the technical existential safety work on agent-agnostic processes?
Despite the above successes, I’m concerned that among x-risk-oriented researchers, attention to risks (or solutions) arising from robust agent-agnostic processes are mostly being discovered and promoted by researchers in the humanities and social sciences, while receiving too little technical attention at the level of how to implement AI technologies. In other words, I’m concerned by the near-disjointness of the following two sets of people:
a) researchers who think in technical terms about AI x-risk, and
b) researchers who think in technical terms about agent-agnostic phenomena.
Note that (b) is a large and expanding set. That is, outside the EA / rationality / x-risk meme-bubbles, lots of AI researchers think about agent-agnostic processes. In particular, multi-agent reinforcement learning (MARL) is an increasingly popular research topic, and examines the emergence of group-level phenomena such as alliances, tragedies of the commons, and language. Working in this area presents plenty of opportunities to think about RAAPs.
An important point in the intersection of (a) and (b) is Allan Dafoe’s work “Open Problems in Cooperative AI” (dafoe2020open). Dafoe is the Director of FHI’s Center for the Governance of Artificial Intelligence, while the remaining authors on the paper are all DeepMind researchers with strong backgrounds in MARL, notably Leibo, who notably is not on DeepMind’s already-established safety team. I’m very much hoping to see more “crossovers” like this between thinkers in the x-risk space and MARL research.
Through conversations with Stuart Russell about the agent-centric narrative of his book Human Compatible (russell2019human), I’ve learned that he views human preference learning as a problem that can and must be solved by the aggregate behavior of a technological society, if that society is to remain beneficial to its human constituents. Thus, to the extent that RAAPs can “learn” things at all, the problem of learning human values (dewey2011learning) is as much a problem for RAAPs as it is for physically distinct agents.
Finally, should also mention that I agree with Tom Dietterich’s view (dietterich2019robust) that we should make AI safer to society by learning from high-reliability organizations (HROs), such as those studied by social scientists Karlene Roberts, Gene Rochlin, and Todd LaPorte (roberts1989research, roberts1989new, roberts1994decision, roberts2001systems, rochlin1987self, laporte1991working, laporte1996high). HROs have a lot of beneficial agent-agnostic human-implemented processes and control loops that keep them operating. Again, Dietterich himself is not as yet a proponent of existential safety concerns, however, to me this does not detract from the correctness of his perspective on learning from the HRO framework to make AI safer.
Part 2: Fast stories, and lessons therefrom
Now let’s look at some fast stories. These are important not just for completeness, and not just because humanity could be extra-blindsided by very fast changes in tech, but also because these stories involve the highest proportion of automated decision-making. For a computer scientist, this means more opportunities to fully spec out what’s going on in technical terms, which for some will make the scenarios easier to think about. In fact, for some AI researchers, the easiest way to prevent the unfolding of harmful “slow stories” might be to first focus on these “fast stories”, and then see what changes if some parts of the story are carried out more slowly by humans instead of machines.
Flash wars
Below are two more stories, this time where the AI technology takes off relatively quickly:
Flash War, v.1
The Flash War v.1a and v.1b differ on the source of agency, but they share a similar RAAP: the deterrence of major threats with major threats.
Accidents vs RAAPs. One could also classify these flash wars as “accidents”, and indeed, techniques to make the attack detection systems less error-prone could help decrease the likelihood of this scenario. However, the background condition of deterring threats with threats is clearly also an essential causal component of the outcome. Zwetsloot & Dafoe might call this condition a “structural risk” (zwetsloot2018thinking), because it’s a risk posed by the structure of the relationship between the agents, in this case, a high level of distrust, and absence of de-escalation solutions. This underscores how “harmful accident” and “harmful RAAP” are not mutually exclusive event labels, and correspond to complementary approaches to making bad events less likely.
Slow wars. Lastly, I’ll note that wars that play out slowly rather than quickly offer more chances for someone to interject peacemaking solutions into the situation, which might make the probability of human extinction higher in a flash war than in a slow war. However, that doesn’t mean slow-takeoff wars can’t happen or that they can’t destroy us. For instance, consider a world war in which each side keeps reluctantly building more and more lethal autonomous robots to target enemy citizens and leaders, with casualties gradually decimating the human population on both sides until no one is left.
Flash economies
Here’s a another version of a Production Web that very quickly forms what you might call a “flash economy”:
The Production Web, v.1d: DAOs
(Some readers might notice that the concept of gray goo is essentially an even faster variant of the “factorial DAOs”, whose factories operate on a microscopic scale. Phillip K Dick's short story Autofac also bears a strong resemblance.)
Without taking a position on exactly how fast the Production Web / Flash Economy story can be made to play out in reality, in all cases it seems particularly plausible to me that there would be multiple sources of agency in the mix that engage in trade and/or conflict with each other. This isn’t to say that a single agency like a singleton can’t build an Earth-tiling cascade of factory-factories, as I’m sure one could. However, factory-factories might be more likely to develop under multipolar conditions than under unipolar conditions, due to competitive pressures selecting for agents (companies, DAOs, etc.) that produce things more quickly for trading and competing with other agents.
Conclusion
In multi-agent systems, robust processes can emerge that are not particularly sensitive to which agents carry out which parts of the process. I call these processes Robust Agent-Agnostic Processes (RAAPs), and claim that there are at least a few bad RAAPs that could pose existential threats to humanity as automation and AI capabilities improve. Wars and economies are categories of RAAPs that I consider relatively “obvious” to think about, however there may be a much richer space of AI-enabled RAAPs that could yield existential threats or benefits to humanity. Hence, directing more x-risk-oriented AI research attention toward understanding RAAPs and how to make them safe to humanity seems prudent and perhaps necessary to ensure the existential safety of AI technology. Since researchers in multi-agent systems and multi-agent RL already think about RAAPs implicitly, these areas present a promising space for x-risk oriented AI researchers to begin thinking about and learning from.