Victoria Krakovna. Research scientist at DeepMind working on AI safety, and cofounder of the Future of Life Institute. Website and blog: vkrakovna.wordpress.com
I agree that a possible downside of talking about capabilities is that people might assume they are uncorrelated and we can choose not to create them. It does seem relatively easy to argue that deception capabilities arise as a side effect of building language models that are useful to humans and good at modeling the world, as we are already seeing with examples of deception / manipulation by Bing etc.
I think the people who think we can avoid building systems that are good at deception often don't buy the idea of instrumental convergence either (e.g. Yann LeCun), so I'm not sure that arguing for correlated capabilities in terms of intelligence would have an advantage.
Re 4, we were just discussing this paper in a reading group at DeepMind, and people were confused why it's not on arxiv.
The issue with being informal is that it's hard to tell whether you are right. You use words like "motivations" without defining what you mean, and this makes your statements vague enough that it's not clear whether or how they are in tension with other claims. (E.g. what I have read so far doesn't seems to rule out that shards can be modeled as contextually activated subagents with utility functions.)
An upside of formalism is that you can tell when it's wrong, and thus it can help make our thinking more precise even if it makes assumptions that may not apply. I think defining your terms and making your arguments more formal should be a high priority. I'm not advocating spending hundreds of hours proving theorems, but moving in the direction of formalizing definitions and claims would be quite valuable.
It seems like a bad sign that the most clear and precise summary of shard theory claims was written by someone outside your team. I highly agree with this takeaway from that post: "Making a formalism for shard theory (even one that’s relatively toy) would probably help substantially with both communicating key ideas and also making research progress." This work has a lot of research debt, and paying it off would really help clarify the disagreements around these topics.
Thanks Daniel, this is a great summary. I agree that internal representation of the reward function is not load-bearing for the claim. The weak form of representation that you mentioned is what I was trying to point at. I will rephrase the sentence to clarify this, e.g. something like "We assume that the agent learns a goal during the training process: some form of implicit internal representation of desired state features or concepts".
Thanks Daniel for the detailed response (which I agree with), and thanks Alex for the helpful clarification.
I agree that the training-compatible set is not predictive for how the neural network generalizes (at least under the "strong distributional shift" assumption in this post where the test set is disjoint from the training set, which I think could be weakened in future work). The point of this post is that even though you can't generally predict behavior in new situations based on the training-compatible set alone, you can still predict power-seeking tendencies. That's why the title says "power-seeking can be predictive" not "training-compatible goals can be predictive".
The hypothesis you mentioned seems compatible with the assumptions of this post. When you say "the policy develops motivations related to obvious correlates of its historical reinforcement signals", these "motivations" seem like a kind of training-compatible goals (if defined more broadly than in this post). I would expect that a system that pursues these motivations in new situations would exhibit some power-seeking tendencies because those correlate with a lot of reinforcement signals.
I suspect a lot of the disagreement here comes from different interpretations of the "internal representations of goals" assumption, I will try to rephrase that part better.
The internal representations assumption was meant to be pretty broad, I didn't mean that the network is explicitly representing a scalar reward function over observations or anything like that - e.g. these can be implicit representations of state features. I think this would also include the kind of representations you are assuming in the maze-solving post, e.g. cheese shards / circuits.
Thanks Alex! Your original comment didn't read as ill-intended to me, though I wish that you'd just messaged me directly. I could have easily missed your comment in this thread - I only saw it because you linked the thread in the comments on my post.
Your suggested rephrase helps to clarify how you think about the implications of the paper, but I'm looking for something shorter and more high-level to include in my talk. I'm thinking of using this summary, which is based on a sentence from the paper's intro: "There are theoretical results showing that many decision-making algorithms have power-seeking tendencies."
(Looking back, the sentence I used in the talk was a summary of the optimal policies paper, and then I updated the citation to point to the retargetability paper and forgot to update the summary...)
Sorry about the cite in my "paradigms of alignment" talk, I didn't mean to misrepresent your work. I was going for a high-level one-sentence summary of the result and I did not phrase it carefully. I'm open to suggestions on how to phrase this differently when I next give this talk.
Similarly to Steven, I usually cite your power-seeking papers to support a high-level statement that "instrumental convergence is a thing" for ML audiences, and I find they are a valuable outreach tool. For example, last year I pointed David Silver to the optimal policies paper when he was proposing some alignment ideas to our team that we would expect don't work because of instrumental convergence. (There's a nonzero chance he would look at a NeurIPS paper and basically no chance that he would read a LW post.)
The subtleties that you discuss are important in general, but don't seem relevant to making the basic case for instrumental convergence to ML researchers. Maybe you don't care about optimal policies, but many RL people do, and I think these results can help them better understand why alignment is hard.
Here is my guess on how shard theory would affect the argument in this post:
So think that assuming shard theory in this post would lead to the same conclusions - would be curious if you disagree.
Great post! I especially enjoyed the intuitive visualizations for how the heavy-tailed distributions affect the degree of overoptimization of X.
As a possibly interesting connection, your set of criteria for an alignment plan can also be thought of as criteria for selecting a model specification that approximates the ideal specification well, especially trying to ensure that the approximation error is light-tailed.