Eliezer Yudkowsky

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If you had to put a rough number on how likely it is that a misaligned superintelligence would primarily value "small molecular squiggles" versus other types of misaligned goals, would it be more like 1000:1 or 1:1 or 1000:1 or something else? 

Value them primarily?  Uhhh... maybe 1:3 against?  I admit I have never actually pondered this question before today; but 1 in 4 uncontrolled superintelligences spending most of their resources on tiny squiggles doesn't sound off by, like, more than 1-2 orders of magnitude in either direction.

Clocks are not actually very complicated; how plausible is it on your model that these goals are as complicated as, say, a typical human's preferences about how human civilization is structured?

It wouldn't shock me if their goals end up far more complicated than human ones; the most obvious pathway for it is (a) gradient descent turning out to produce internal preferences much faster than natural selection + biological reinforcement learning and (b) some significant fraction of those preferences being retained under reflection.  (Where (b) strikes me as way less probable than (a), but not wholly forbidden.)  The second most obvious pathway is if a bunch of weird detailed noise appears in the first version of the reflective process and then freezes.

Not obviously stupid on a very quick skim.  I will have to actually read it to figure out where it's stupid.

(I rarely give any review this positive on a first skim.  Congrats.)

By "dumb player" I did not mean as dumb as a human player.  I meant "too dumb to compute the pseudorandom numbers, but not too dumb to simulate other players faithfully apart from that".  I did not realize we were talking about humans at all.  This jumps out more to me as a potential source of misunderstanding than it did 15 years ago, and for that I apologize.

I don't always remember my previous positions all that well, but I doubt I would have said at any point that sufficiently advanced LDT agents are friendly to each other, rather than that they coordinate well with each other (and not so with us)?

Actually, to slightly amend that:  The part where squiggles are small is a more than randomly likely part of the prediction, but not a load-bearing part of downstream predictions or the policy argument.  Most of the time we don't needlessly build our own paperclips to be the size of skyscrapers; even when having fun, we try to do the fun without vastly more resources, than are necessary to that amount of fun, because then we'll have needlessly used up all our resources and not get to have more fun.  We buy cookies that cost a dollar instead of a hundred thousand dollars.  A very wide variety of utility functions you could run over the outside universe will have optima around making lots of small things because each thing scores one point, and so to score as many points as possible, each thing is as small as it can be as still count as a thing.  Nothing downstream depends on this part coming true and there are many ways for it to come false; but the part where the squiggles are small and molecular is an obvious kind of guess.  "Great giant squiggles of nickel the size of a solar system would be no more valuable, even from a very embracing and cosmopolitan perspective on value" is the loadbearing part.

The part where squiggles are small and simple is unimportant. They could be bigger and more complicated, like building giant mechanical clocks. The part that matters is that squiggles/paperclips are of no value even from a very cosmopolitan and embracing perspective on value.

What the main post is responding to is the argument:  "We're just training AIs to imitate human text, right, so that process can't make them get any smarter than the text they're imitating, right?  So AIs shouldn't learn abilities that humans don't have; because why would you need those abilities to learn to imitate humans?"  And to this the main post says, "Nope."

The main post is not arguing:  "If you abstract away the tasks humans evolved to solve, from human levels of performance at those tasks, the tasks AIs are being trained to solve are harder than those tasks in principle even if they were being solved perfectly."  I agree this is just false, and did not think my post said otherwise.

This deserves a longer answer than I have time to allocate it, but I quickly remark that I don't recognize the philosophy or paradigm of updatelessness as refusing to learn things or being terrified of information; a rational agent should never end up in that circumstance, unless some perverse other agent is specifically punishing them for having learned the information (and will lose of their own value thereby; it shouldn't be possible for them to gain value by behaving "perversely" in that way, for then of course it's not "perverse").  Updatelessness is, indeed, exactly that sort of thinking which prevents you from being harmed by information, because your updateless exposure to information doesn't cause you to lose coordination with your counterfactual other selves or exhibit dynamic inconsistency with your past self.

From an updateless standpoint, "learning" is just the process of reacting to new information the way your past self would want you to do in that branch of possibility-space; you should never need to remain ignorant of anything.  Maybe that involves not doing the thing that would then be optimal when considering only the branch of reality you turned out to be inside, but the updateless mind denies that this was ever the principle of rational choice, and so feels no need to stay ignorant in order to maintain dynamic consistency.

They can solve it however they like, once they're past the point of expecting things to work that sometimes don't work.  I have guesses but any group that still needs my hints should wait and augment harder.

I disagree with my characterization as thinking problems can be solved on paper, and with the name "Poet".  I think the problems can't be solved by twiddling systems weak enough to be passively safe, and hoping their behavior generalizes up to dangerous levels.  I don't think paper solutions will work either, and humanity needs to back off and augment intelligence before proceeding.  I do not take the position that we need a global shutdown of this research field because I think that guessing stuff without trying it is easy, but because guessing it even with some safe weak lesser tries is still impossibly hard.  My message to humanity is "back off and augment" not "back off and solve it with a clever theory".

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