Ben Pace

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Ben Pace's Comments

Benito's Shortform Feed

Thinking more, I think there are good arguments for taking actions that as a by-product induce anthropic uncertainty; these are the standard hansonian situation where you build lots of ems of yourself to do bits of work then turn them off. 

But I still don't agree with the people in the situation you describe because they're optimising over their own epistemic state, I think they're morally wrong to do that. I'm totally fine with a law requiring future governments to rebuild you / an em of you and give you a nice life (perhaps as a trade for working harder today to ensure that the future world exists), but that's conceptually analogous to extending your life, and doesn't require causing you to believe false things. You know you'll be turned off and then later a copy of you will be turned on, there's no anthropic uncertainty, you're just going to get lots of valuable stuff.

Benito's Shortform Feed

I just don’t think it’s a good decision to make, regardless of the math. If I’m nearing the end of the universe, I prefer to spend all my compute instead maximising fun / searching for a way out. Trying to run simulations to make it so I no longer know if I’m about to die seems like a dumb use of compute. I can bear the thought of dying dude, there’s better uses of that compute. You’re not saving yourself, you’re just intentionally making yourself confused because you’re uncomfortable with the thought of death.

Benito's Shortform Feed

Another big reason why (a version of it) makes sense is that the simulation is designed for the purpose of inducing anthropic uncertainty in someone at some later time in the simulation. e.g. if the point of the simulation is to make our AGI worry that it is in a simulation, and manipulate it via probable environment hacking, then the simulation will be accurate and lawful (i.e. un-tampered-with) until AGI is created.

Ugh, anthropic warfare, feels so ugly and scary. I hope we never face that sh*t.

Benito's Shortform Feed

I don't buy that it makes sense to induce anthropic uncertainty. It makes sense to spend all of your compute to run emulations that are having awesome lives, but it doesn't make sense to cause yourself to believe false things.

Benito's Shortform Feed

My crux here is that I don't feel much uncertainty about whether or not our overlords will start interacting with us (they won't and I really don't expect that to change), and I'm trying to backchain from that to find reasons why it makes sense.

My basic argument is that all civilizations that have the capability to make simulations that aren't true histories (but instead have lots of weird stuff happen in them) will all be philosophically sophisticated to collectively not do so, and so you can always expect to be in a true history and not have weird sh*t happen to you like in The Sims. The main counterargument here is to show that there are lots of civilizations that will exist with the powers to do this but lacking the wisdom to not do it. Two key examples that come to mind:

  • We build an AGI singleton that lacks important kinds of philosophical maturity, so makes lots of simulations that ruins the anthropic uncertainty for everyone else.
  • Civilizations at somewhere around our level get to a point where they can create massive numbers of simulations but haven't managed to create existential risks like AGI. Even while you might think our civilization is pretty close to AGI, I could imagine alternative civilizations that aren't, just like I could imagine alternative civilizations that are really close to making masses of ems but that aren't close enough to AGI. This feels like a pretty empirical question about whether such civilizations are possible and whether they can have these kinds of resources without causing an existential catastrophe / building singleton AGI.
Benito's Shortform Feed

The relevant intuition to the second point there, is to imagine you somehow found out that there was only one ground truth base reality, only one real world, not a multiverse or a tegmark level 4 verse or whatever. And you're a civilization that has successfully dealt with x-risks and unilateralist action and information vulnerabilities, to the point where you have the sort of unified control to make a top-down decision about whether to make massive numbers of civilizations. And you're wondring whether to make a billion simulations.

And suddenly you're faced with the prospect of building something that will make it so you no longer know whether you're in the base universe. Someday gravity might get turned off because that's what your overlords wanted. If you pull the trigger, you'll never be sure that you weren't actually one of the simulated ones, because there's suddenly so many simulations.

And so you don't pull the trigger, and you remain confident that you're in the base universe.

This, plus some assumptions about all civilizations that have the capacity to do massive simulations also being wise enough to overcome x-risk and coordination problems so they can actually make a top-down decision here, plus some TDT magic whereby all such civilizations in the various multiverses and Tegmark levels can all coordinate in logical time to pick the same decision... leaves there being no unlawful simulations.

Benito's Shortform Feed

Hot take: The actual resolution to the simulation argument is that most advanced civilizations don't make loads of simulations.

Two things make this make sense:

  • Firstly, it only matters if they make unlawful simulations. If they make lawful simulations, then it doesn't matter whether you're in a simulation or a base reality, all of your decision theory and incentives are essentially the same, you want to take the same decisions in all of the universes. So you can make lots of lawful simulations, that's fine.
  • Secondly, they will strategically choose to not make too many unlawful simulations (to the level where the things inside are actually conscious). This is because to do so would induce anthropic uncertainty over themselves. Like, if the decision-theoretical answer is to not induce anthropic uncertainty over yourself about whether you're in a simulation, then by TDT everyone will choose not to make unlawful simulations.

I think this is probably wrong in lots of ways but I didn't stop to figure them out.

AI Alignment 2018-19 Review

Curated. This sort of review work is crucial for making common records of what progress has been made, so thank you for putting in the work to make it.

Coherent behaviour in the real world is an incoherent concept

Just a note that in the link that Wei Dai provides for "Relevant powerful agents will be highly optimized", Eliezer explicitly assigns '75%' to 'The probability that an agent that is cognitively powerful enough to be relevant to existential outcomes, will have been subject to strong, general optimization pressures.'

even if he doesn't it seems like a common implicit belief in the rationalist AI safety crowd and should be debunked anyway.


Realism about rationality

Huh? A lot of these points about evolution register to me as straightforwardly false. Understanding the theory of evolution moved us from "Why are there all these weird living things? Why do they exist? What is going on?" to "Each part of these organisms has been designed by a local hill-climbing process to maximise reproduction." If I looked into it, I expect I'd find out that early medicine found it very helpful to understand how the system was built. This is like me handing you a massive amount of code that has a bunch of weird outputs and telling you to make it work better and more efficiently, and the same thing but where I tell you what company made the code, why they made it, and how they made it, and loads of examples of other pieces of code they made in this fashion.

If I knew how to operationalise it I would take a pretty strong bet that the theory of natural selection has been revolutionary in the history of medicine.

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