Zach Stein-Perlman's Shortform

Zach Stein-Perlman

This is a special post for quick takes by Zach Stein-Perlman. Only they can create top-level comments. Comments here also appear on the Quick Takes page and All Posts page.

I asked Rohin Shah what the debate agenda is about and he said (off the cuff, not necessarily worded well) (context omitted) (emphasis mine):

Suppose you have any task where given an input x the AI has to produce some output y. (Can be question answering, arbitrary chatbot stuff, being an agent, whatever.)
Debate to me is a family of procedures for training AIs in such settings. One example such procedure is: sample two possible outputs y1 and y2, then have two AIs debate each other about which output is better (one assigned to y1 and the other assigned to y2, typically both are instances of the same underlying weights). The winner of the debate is determined by a judge. You then train the debaters with RL (+1 reward for the winner, -1 reward for the loser), and treat (y_winner, y_loser) as a preference pair for training on the original task (which you could then optimize using DPO or similar).
The hope is that the debaters are incentivized to simply say which output is better, to the best of their ability, and so this allows you to provide a reward signal that is as good as can be provided given the capabilities of the debater AI. (Ideally the debater AI is similarly capable as the AI doing the task; often you’ll want these to be the same AI system.)
More broadly the problem I aim to solve with debate (or amplified oversight more broadly) is “provide a reward signal that the AI cannot hack” (though ofc the AI may still misgeneralize)
The hope is that decreases p(misaligned) — especially p(reward hacking), but probably also p(scheming)
You could also use the resulting debaters at inference time to audit especially suspicious actions (run the debate again, ideally it points out why the given action is good / bad)

2Rohin Shah2y

You'd hope that, fixing a base model, debate would make AIs better at tasks than they otherwise would be (at least if the task doesn't have a ground truth reward). Untrusted monitoring is such a task. So hopefully debate training makes AIs better at the task of untrusted monitoring.

3Buck2y

I don't think this is right. To train an untrusted monitor, you need to synthetically generate dangerous actions (because by assumption these actions are rare). So during training, you'll always know the correct label for an action before you show it to the model. You might want to use something debate-like in the synthetic input generation process, but that's structurally different.

I could imagine other ways you might choose to instead train your untrusted monitor, which could benefit from debate:

You train a general-purpose reasoner (via debate), and simply prompt it to do untrusted monitoring. This could do better than a trained untrusted monitor because it is less likely to overfit to spurious features of synthetically generated dangerous actions. (You instead use the synthetically generated dangerous actions to validate your untrusted monitor, or to hill climb on your prompt.)
You do train on synthetically generated dangerous actio

... (read more)

Zach Stein-Perlman's Shortform

0

Zach Stein-Perlman's Shortform

0